How to Negotiate With Freelance Writing Clients
You are your client's equal and don't have to bend to every single demand just to make money. There are tons of smart and strong ways to negotiate with your clients from work and money, to boundaries and schedule, to time off and feedback.
This week's livestream is going over a few simple steps to negotiate with your freelance writing clients, how to build your confidence when it comes to negotiation conversations, how to move forward if negotiations aren't going well, and red flags to avoid.
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How to Negotiate With Freelance Writing Clients
You are your freelance writing clients equal. Okay? When you are negotiating with your clients, you have to remember that you're not their underling, you're not their employee, you don't work for them, you work with them. So this is a really important thing to go over for us. Freelance writers, or even if you're just in freelance in general, like you're a other type of freelancer, is negotiating with your clients and understanding kind of the point of view that you're coming from, and then also what you're negotiating, how that works, how to put all your stuff in place.
So we're gonna go over that today, and plus we have several questions to go over. So we have a couple long ones and some that are a little bit complicated. So we have some questions coming in, and we're gonna go over our negotiation stuff first, and we've got the peppermints here. Let's see if the camera's actually on.
Nope, hold on. Let's fix it. Let's see. Is it gonna work now? Let's see. Hold on.
All right. There. There we go. It's kind of working. All right, so our friends are here, sitting over on the sidelines. All right, let's go to number one. So our number one thing that we're gonna talk about, where is it? There it is. So number one, the first thing we're gonna talk about is really the simple steps to negotiate with your freelance writing clients, right?
These things are not complicated, where we don't wanna make them complicated. We don't wanna make them something that, um, becomes a stressful or overwhelming or, um, kind of an anxiety inducing, um, thing for us to get through. So when we're negotiating, like the first thing is you can say no to anything you.
You can say, no, that doesn't work for me. You can just say no, or you can say like, Hey, I have another option for you. The other thing is that if you are negotiating, so that's number one. Number one, important, most important thing. You can say no to anything you want. Number two. Here is that if you're negotiating with someone and it's not going well or you don't like the terms, you can always walk away.
There is always more work. There are always more opportunities. And , I've found that myself in this situation so many times and even times where I've waited too long to walk away and then like, you know, my client is like, Hey, I don't feel like we're quite the fit to work together. And I'm like, oh my gosh, I have, I haven't been feeling that way either.
Like I don't feel like we're a fit, but for some reason I keep going. Right. And it's a mistake we all make because we're worried about whether or not if there's more work out there or we feel like this is okay enough or, um, we're trying to negotiate prices or contract or, um, whatever types of terms or how the work is going.
Anytime you're negotiating, there can be times where you're just like, this isn't working and you can walk away. Hey Marie. , it's not this overly complicated thing. And I think a lot of times what ends up happening, especially for writers, is we make it this, um, very emotionally charged situation. So we make it a very, um, backstory laden situation.
So, so instead of saying like, okay, this is just isn't working them out, we're like, oh, well I, let me tell my story about how I suck and they're negotiating with me cuz I'm terrible at everything and I shouldn't be a writer and I'm, um, I should just bend to their every need. Like we, we get very sucked into anxiety and imposter syndrome and self-doubt and this vortex of, um, really horrible self, uh, negative self.
and we tell ourselves this very long story, and this has happened to me, this happened to me for many, many years. I still fall into this trap all the time. It's part of mindset work. It's part of keeping yourself sharp and it's part of really moving your business forward and, um, just getting to new levels and then having to deal with new mindset things.
So your negotiations are different, right? But this is something we keep working on. But I have met tons of writers, hundreds if not thousands of writers that do the same thing. Like it, it's a story that you're telling yourself or it's a situation you're making up where like if you just tell your client no, or you're just like, this isn't working for me.
You're just like, everything is imploding from this one situation and it's just not true. Um, Hey, Vesna. Oh yes. . I'm glad that you liked the topic. Hey, flower power. Um, well, we're glad you're here. We're glad. Even if you had to catch a meeting, we're glad that you were here to hop on the stream and say hello to everybody.
I always feel like this is a nice way to kind of connect with other writers and kind of chill for a little bit, so we're glad you're here. Okay, so we can say no. The first thing is like we can say no to whatever we want. The second thing is like you can always walk away and basically the third thing is like stop telling yourself a random story that isn't true.
Like stop , stop going into all this stuff. And like I said, I'm still guilty of this. I still will tell myself random stories that have nothing to do with the situation. It's all about the mindset that I'm pulling into the situation or my past negative talk, or the things I believe about my writing or the stuff that just like it.
I'm just a projecting it onto my client, right? So when we're kind of going through these things, when we negotiate with clients, we have to figure out something that works for both parties. We are going into this saying like, okay, I would like to get paid this amount for this amount of work, or I don't wanna do this type of work.
I only wanna do this type of work. Or we're negotiating, um, you know, uh, rights in a contract with a magazine, or we're negotiating, uh, due dates, or we're negotiating timeframe for the contract, or we're negotiating, uh, indemnification, right, legal indemnification. Or we are negotiating word count. Or it could be almost anything.
And I always kind of just think of it as like, does this work for. . Okay, cool. , like if it works for them, great. You get to move forward. If it doesn't, you just have a normal conversation. It doesn't have to be this like super chess match, like, you know, like what you see on TV where people are like hardcore negotiations, like this is not like that.
There are lots of people too where they get into negotiation situations and they're like, no, I want this. Like, and then they, they're reasonable, right? And they're like, okay, let's kind of talk this out a little bit. And then they come to an agreement. It's not this stressful, like make them blink. First thing.
I just think it's, it's very clear cut. What works for you and what doesn't, right? What works for you? Now we can have a conversation about that. There are times when your writing clients will try to negotiate down your rates, or they will try to negotiate something that you don't feel like is in your favor.
You don't have to accept that. Right. It's cut and dry. Yes or no, . Um, and I feel like the negotiations part is like, how do we hash this out to work for both parties? Can I deal with this type of clause and a contract? Um, does this lower rate really work for me? Like, do I really want this work? Do I really wanna work for this client?
Do I really want this new type of project? Do I like you really gotta ask yourself a bunch of questions about how important is this work financially or to my portfolio or moving forward or getting a client in this niche or of this type getting this new project type. Um, what is about this thing that you're negotiating is really gonna help you move forward?
And I feel like. A lot of times when we're thinking about things like price, like I, it, when we get to the point of nickel and diming over a hundred bucks, like we've missed the whole point. And this is something that I often tell, um, writers about just negotiating as like, remember that this is not transactional.
Okay? We're not , we're not just getting paid on a per article basis. When you create content, don't step on her. When you create, don't step on her, she's gonna have a meltdown. Um, we've got active friends, so she hates. She's like, don't step on me. Go back to your hava hole. Go back to your little, I know you're a thousand.
You're just like, I have some hair for this. Oh, don't fall over. Okay. So we talk about this all the time, right? Like it's just, um, when we're negotiating over a hundred bucks, the point is like, there is plenty of time, right? So when I think back on my work with clients, I have plenty of articles. or case studies or white papers or email drip campaigns or whatever it is that are still making money for my clients.
I'm long gone. I haven't worked with them in five years and that stuff, it is, um, it's either a template or it's an article that's posted on their site or a case study. It's still bringing them sales, it's still bringing them leads. It's still bringing them traffic, it's bringing them, uh, subscribers, likes, shares, whatever.
And I'm long gone. So if you think transactionally, when you're in these negotiations, you've missed the whole point of content, right? Your content continually brings in stuff for your clients. If you write good content, I'm not talking about trash, garbage content. I'm talking about really good content that does what it's supposed to do, answers, questions, quality stuff that lives so much longer than your interaction with your client.
Like even if you have a client for five years and you've been creating all this content, That content still lives beyond your relationship. So why are you negotiating $600 instead of four 50 or like something like that? You know, every once in a while there'll be a time where I negotiate over several hundred bucks.
Um, and that's mostly because I want a different type of project or a different type of client, or there's something that I wanna work on. Or, you know, like the client is like, we normally pay this, but you know, like, we really like your work, so we're willing to meet you in the middle here. That's when I'll kind of do that.
Uh, but most of the time if you're quibbling over someone saying like, if you spend an hour less, does it con cost a hundred dollars less? Like you're in the wrong ballpark. So when you're creating this content and you're thinking transactionally when it comes to negotiating and you're like, oh, well, should I 50 bucks?
50 bucks or a hundred bucks is such a small number that does not matter to almost all clients. Like they're just like, how do I get a deal ? Um, but for us, it's a big deal for us writers. Getting 50 or a hundred bucks is a big deal, like moving up the ranks, getting paid more for our work, getting paid for the value of our work.
So most of the time when you're meeting a client that's quibbling over 50 bucks or a hundred bucks or something small, they're not the right fit. Now, like I said, caveat, there are times where I will negotiate with a client where they're like, yeah, our budget is normally this, but we like your work. Or you've been recommended or referred by so-and-so and so, we can meet you in the middle at this number.
That's totally fine. But there, what I'm talking about is those situations where I hear from writers where they're like, oh yeah, they asked me to do it. A hu uh, 50 bucks instead of a hundred bucks. We're not talking about 800 bucks versus 500 bucks. We're talking about a very small number, like a hundred dollars for the post total, or $200 for the post total.
And I'm talking like a thousand word post or some big kind of number. And they're trying to, um, , they're trying to go over this like whole, hold on. Um, they're trying to, basically, it, it's obvious that the negotiation is about just lowering the price. So I want you to remember that it's not really about your, um, it's not really about quibbling over 25 bucks, 75 bucks, a hundred bucks.
It's really about understanding the long-term value of your content and your motivation for taking that project or working with that client, or getting that clip or working in that niche. So we kind of go through these, these different phases I've outlined in number one, and we wanna make sure that it's kind of more cut and dry and it's okay to walk away.
There will always be other clients. Like, if it's not a fit, it's not a fit, go find somebody else. This is why we need to be marketing regularly, right? If you're marketing regularly, you have more choices. And I know for me, um, my marketing cycle has been longer recently, so I know some writers I've talked to, like they have a bunch of stuff going on and they have work picking up for me.
It's been a little bit longer. Um, I'm also going after like more content strategy or brand messaging or messaging and positioning, um, or marketing consultation type projects that are a little bit bigger than blog posts or like a few case studies. Um, so anyways, just a little intel there that, like your marketing cycle can depend on what's going on, but you need to be marketing regularly so you can be picky about your project.
um, and so that you can have more opportunities already, you know, being planted, right? We don't necessarily plant our marketing seeds and get them to harvest immediately, but when we have our marketing being done, negotiating becomes sort of like a, I already have two other clients willing to pay my rate.
Why am I gonna negotiate down with you? Or why am I gonna negotiate six different terms with you that I don't even want when I have multiple other clients ready to pay for this thing or ready to work with my terms, or, we agree on this thing right now, we have more different types of things to look at.
That gives us kind of more, not more, but a better perspective. Hello? A better perspective on what's available to us as freelance writers, right? So that's number one. When we're kind of negotiating with freelance writing clients, you can always walk away. You can always say no. You can always work on your terms.
Remember the long-term impact of your content. , um, and really like, make it friendly and like, I, I just feel like we don't have to go through like hardcore negotiations. And most of the time reme, like when you're working with some or, uh, negotiating with someone and they're making it difficult to negotiate, that's how your working relationship will be.
Don't forget that everything that you do prior to signing a contract, that is a 100% reflection of how your relationship will be when you start working with them. Nothing changes when you sign the contract. They don't become a magically different person like, so the, what you're dealing with in negotiations and what you're dealing with, go back to your, have a hole, what you're dealing with in negotiations and what you're dealing with in terms of your, um, are you settled over there?
You happy , um, what you're dealing with in terms of your terms or rates or whatever. Like, just remember that they, there is no magic change after negotiation. So if it's difficult. In negotiations, that is almost always an indicator that it's gonna be difficult working with this person or this company or whatever.
Hey, good luck. Good job. All right, let's talk about number two. Number two here. Boo boo, boo boop. All right, number two. So number two, what we're talking about is, um, our confidence. So we're building, I've dog droo over my hands, so we're building confidence when it comes, uh, when we're thinking about our negotiation.
So honestly, the number one thing here is just like, do it often, right? Work on this more often, like negotiate your rate more often, or talk to more clients more often, have more calls, have more marketing, have more conversations. That solves a lot of problems. It becomes very clearly obvi. If you have like four conversations versus a hundred conversations, you're like, oh.
all of these people were nuts. I don't wanna work with them, but these, you know, 15 people were a really good fit for me. Right? The more conversations that you have, um, the more interactions that you, you start adding to your bank, right, of clients, the more things you understand about just like how people operate and negotiate, the easier it becomes.
And this is oftentimes something that I see where a lot of people or writers shy away from it. Like, they're just like, oh, they wanted to negotiate, so I just didn't do it. Like, I just ghosted them. Um, or this other weird thing happened. So I just l like stop working with them. Like instead of meeting the challenge and dealing with, you know, it's not even a roadblock, it's just a conversation.
The more confidence like you build is from actually doing the. , okay. You have to take action. The confidence is created by aligning with the fact that you're actually pursuing the thing, right? It's not like you just become confident. And me standing here after 10 years as a writer, there's plenty of things I'm not confident about, but the more I take action on these things, the easier and easier it becomes.
Then I become more confident because I'm like, oh, this isn't that big of a deal. I've done this a hundred times. Or I'm like, oh, I know how this goes. Cause I've talked to 400 other people just like this person who are doing these, you know, four red flag activities. Um, and it's just something where you , you just have these, uh, you have these conversations, or you have these d.
Situations that pop up. The one thing I do notice when I get coaching clients or when I get students like freelance writer, wealth lab students, um, in my course, or if I just get writer emails is like, go back to your you sa um, is that when they come to me and they don't absorb their wins, their confidence takes a huge hit.
So when someone is not absorbing their wins, they keep coming back to me saying like, and now this client did this, and now what do I do about that? And then what do I do about this? And then this thing happened, and it's all the same. Like it's the same situation. Oops, sorry. Mean it's the same situation over and over and over again that this writer is going through.
But instead of saying like, oh, remember these three instances where I did a really good job and absorbing that into their writer's psyche and absorbing that into the fact that they've done a really good job, you know, with challenges, or can you gimme a high five? Good job. Good job. , um, or you know, that they have overcome things that used to stop them up in the past.
They just immediately move on to the work or to the next goalpost or the next milestone. Like they don't absorb it into , into their personality or into their mind. They're just like, okay, thank God that's over. Let's get the work done before they fire me. Like, no, dude, no. Every time you get a win, you have to absorb it.
Otherwise, you're gonna end up in these same situations with your negotiations over and over and over again because you're not actually building any confidence at all. You're not a, you're not taking a moment to absorb the fact that you're doing a better job than you used to. You just keep ending.
You're like, how do I end up in these situations? And it's like, you, you have 400 examples. Why can't you just do that? Like, absorb that, right? Hi, w can you go back to your woo spot? Go back to your woo spot. Go back to your hava hole. Thank you. Can you lay down, down. , can you lay down? No, we just wanna do high fives today.
That's all we want. High five. Good job, high five. Good job. You know, there's, there's no number of examples either. That's the thing, is like, I often feel that the lower your confidence, the lower your writer confidence or the lower your confidence is in your skills or your writing abilities, the more you feel like you need a thousand examples instead of 10 to show you actually know how to do it or you're good at something, or you can negotiate with a client.
It's not like that. If you've done it successfully a few times, you know how to do it right. So building your confidence. Um, yeah, Marie, this was a big one for Marie. So Marie's one of my students from Freelance Writer Wealth. Um, and she says that acknowledging, uh, her writer wins has been a game changer.
Yeah, for sure. This was something where you have to like acknowledge how far you've come or the good things that you've, um, done or, um, how you've come, like how far you've come since last year or the last time you had this negotiation. Building. Your confidence comes from action. You have to actually do it.
You can't just sit around wallowing in the pool of self-hate and the pool of nervousness and anxiety and overwhelm and whatever, and then expect things to change. You actually have to negotiate with clients. You actually have to be firm in your boundaries. You actually have to enforce certain parts of your contract or enforce certain parts of your rates or enforce certain parts of your agreement that's part of owning a business.
You have to stick to the agreement. Right, and I feel like this building confidence is just taking. Take more calls, do more marketing, do more negotiations, ask for more of whatever it is, or ask for different, I don't care if it's more or different or, um, sort of the same or something you like better. Like you need to ask more questions and you need to stand up for yourself more and take action.
That will build your confidence. So that's number two. Then we're gonna talk about three. And we have questions too. So we're gonna talk about three. And I just realized like last time that these are like not the same size and also not in the same place, . So let's talk about three. Uh, if this has been helpful so far, give it a thumbs up.
If you feel like you wanna learn more about building, um, a, a freelance writing business you love, or hitting six figures, subscribe. Also, just as a heads up, I keep forgetting to mention. Before we go on. So I keep forgetting to mention this, but, um, I will be running a class soon, so keep your eyes peeled for that.
If you wanna hear about this class, um, it's gonna be 50 bucks ish. It'll be a $50 class. It's a one week class with, uh, live stuff with me every single day for a week. Um, you can go and grab my free pricing guide. So if you go to mande ellis.com/pricing guide, you'll be the first people to hear about the class.
It's 50 bucks. It's a one week class, um, all about freelance writing. I'll tell you more about it, um, later. But basically it's going to take you through day by day, like the steps of kind of building and growing your freelance writing business. So if you grab my free pricing guide, um, you'll also get my tips and tricks emails, and you'll be the first people to hear about this.
Current students cuz I know everybody's gonna ask. So like Maria and Vesna, you guys already get the class. So my current students, you don't have to pay anything extra for this class. If you would like to come join the class, you are absolutely welcome. You guys will all get the details inside the Wealth Lab community.
So all current students, any classes that I run that are extra, you don't have to pay for those. Let's talk about number three. Where is it? Here it is . Okay, let's talk about number three. So when your negotiations, I'm actually gonna combine these things into one. So if your negotiations aren't going well and you're also looking out for red flags, right?
So if you're gonna, negotiations aren't going well, remember what we said, you can say no and you can walk away. There are tons of other opportunities out there. There are always, always opportunities. . And this is a story that I find I say on repeat, especially right now, there have been terrible economic times since forever.
This is the, it's a cycle. It that's, it's an economic cycle, right? There have been writers who have had their best years ever during the worst economic times. There are writers who have been through multiple different horrible economic times, and they still are writing, still making a living, still growing, right?
So you have to kind of remember that this is separate from that. There are always opportunities out there. I've seen writers do, um, Holly says, oh, we feel so special. Holly's another one of my students. Holly's come quite far. She's had, uh, I think three or four pieces published now. So she has a poem and she's had a HuffPost article and a, a darling article and something else if I can't remember right.
But she's, she's publishing a whole bunch of stuff. Um, where was I going? . Um, I got excited about Holly Holly's stuff. Um, vena two, wherever Veda is, I know you're creeping. There you are. Vena two has been killing it with a bunch of her work stuff. So like, I just wanna kind of shout out my students. So Vena has been like, we're working on, um, mindset stuff, right?
Vena. But we she's been killing it. Her work has been incredible. Like, I try to tell her this is the same thing. You have to absorb your wins. You gotta look at your work and say like, Hey, this is actually good quality stuff I'm doing. So like, absorbing things are important. All right. Back to my topic, cuz right now I'm like offkey and she's making noises at me.
Hello. Woo. Woo. Would you like to submit a question for today about how you're not getting enough snacks? Here you go, buddy. Oh, there we go. It's right here. Here, right here. Good job. All right. Can you gimme a high five? How about high up? Good job. Good girl. All right, so when we are, um, if your negotiations aren't going well, you can say no, or you can just straight up walk away.
You can be like, Hey, this isn't working. I don't think we're a fit. Have a great day. Good luck finding the best writer to fit your needs. There's all these things that if you start, like, I've done this before and I've done it recently where I end up getting, you have to go back to your hava hole. . I'm negotiating with Charlotte right now, right?
I'm negotiating with Charlotte right now where she's like trying to get more snacks and I'm telling her not right now. Right? . So you can always walk away. Like there's always more work out there, and if it's not going well, I'm telling you that's how your working relationship is gonna go. So even if you get through negotiations, and even if you get a signed contract, working with them might be a nightmare.
So for me, even like even recently, right? Like within the last year, I've had several instances where I know like I have this feeling right, and I always tell my students, That it's kind of like a smell, right? It's kind of like a smell that you start getting where you start being like, huh, like there's a weird, there's a weird, uh, smell going on here where like, things aren't right, like something's burning in the kitchen.
Like, and you start getting this spidey sense and, and you're just like, this is not right. And I've done this men even in the last year, right, where I'm like, this is not right. Like, something is not right here. Something is fishy and I don't trust my gut and I keep moving forward, and then it ends up blowing up in my face, right?
So trust your gut if those negotiations aren't going well, or if things are weird. Um, and maybe this is a little bit even for myself today, when things are weird and they're not going well, or you know that there's something strange, or you start like, there's a smell. Like it's just a smell. That's how I can describe it.
It's like you start, at first, it kind of hits you and you're like, that's weird. And then as, as it goes on, you're like, something's on fire. Like something is burning. I'm smelling weirdness, like something's going on. . So you start feeling it and then you ignore it. , right? So if things aren't going well in your negotiations, abort, there's more clients, do more marketing, find more people, right?
Yes, vena, you definitely need to absorb your wins. You've been doing a great job too. So you need to put that in your psyche. So let's say that, um, I'm also going through these negotiations and I start in alignment, right? With the smell is like these red flags. So if I'm, let's say we're, I'm negotiating with a client, a red flag is like one that they won't negotiate with you at all.
They're just like, this is it, and if this doesn't work with you, goodbye. Right? Which is fine, they can have boundaries, but if you were like, Hey, I really wanna work with you, let's work it out, and they're like, no, you know, that's probably not a good fit. The other thing is that when you're negotiating a red flag can be what I said earlier is like, they're like, can you do it for $25 less?
And you're just like, What? Um, or they're like, if you spend two less hours, does it cost a hundred dollars less? Or if you spend, you know, they're trying to like buy your time rather than expertise. Wow. That was a sad little woo. That was a sad woo. Aw. Can you go back to your hava hole? Beep beep, beep beep.
You wanna come say hello to everybody? No, that's what I thought. That's what I thought. So your red flag is like someone trying to negotiate down a really small amount of cash for the work, which means they don't understand the long-term value of the work, but you understand the long-term value of the work, right?
You understand? Nobody's on camera. This happens all the time. Like one of you just wants to sit so far away. Nobody's on camera. So I just think that if we're quibbling over very small amounts of. , like things aren't, that's a red flag to me. And then the other thing is like, you have forgotten the long-term value of your work.
Remember I said like, I still have clients where I haven't worked with them in years, and they still get sales leads, subscribers, like shares, web traffic, seo, o, all the good stuff they want. And that's really important to remember. Um, another red flag is like if you are just going back and forth and things keep to changing.
So let's say they're like, Hey, will you do it for this number instead of this number? And you're like, oh, I guess I will. And then they're like, actually, will you also do this? And then you're like, okay. And then they're like, well now, now we're not sure about doing the work. And uh, now we're not sure about this.
And so like, if there's a lot of wishy washiness or you keep agreeing to terms and it's still not closing the contract, like that's a red flag. Oh, hello. Woo. Have a call. Thank you. . I know we've been doing HaBO Hole recently. She's just extra antsy. Uh, cuz she needs to be walked. So as we're kind of thinking about our, our weird trying, like we're trying to close the contract, we're trying to say like, Hey, I wanna work with you.
How do we make this happen? If they're just like, wiggle worm out of everything, they're gonna do that during your working relationship. Here you go buddy. So you're not even really negotiating, you're like dealing with. Non-committal activity, right? Like, it's more about not committing to anything, even if they get the terms they want.
I've done that a ton of times where I've negotiated with a client and then it turns out where they're like, oh, we don't run and do this work anymore. We wanna do something else. Or, um, I've negotiated all these different things with them, right? I've talked to legal, or I've talked to so-and-so, or I've talked to like six different people.
And then it ends up being like, they're like, oh, we've changed directions. We're not doing that project anymore. And that is a signal of dysfunction inside the company that like, they went through this whole rigamarole, right? Of trying to work with a freelance writer, get a scope of work, get the contract, get the proposal, get a, an upfront payment.
And if they're still squirreling around, like that's , it's not good. That's not good. The other thing too is like if I'm negotiating and they're asking for more work and less money, right as we go up, they're like, oh, well this shouldn't take that long, right? They're like, oh, this shouldn't, um, this should take you less time, so can you just not charge me for it?
No, no, no. So if you're negotiating stuff and they're trying to change the scope of work, saying like, oh, it should only take you 15 minutes, so you shouldn't charge me for it. No. Are you getting a deliverable that costs money? Like, it's not like someone goes to, like, you, you don't go get an ice cream sundae and say like, oh, the fudge is only 5 cents for you to pour it on my sundae, so you shouldn't charge me for it.
Or like, oh, if I want extra sprinkles or, uh, extra cookie bits or extra gummy worms, like, you shouldn't charge me for that, right? Like, no, I think it's more of a, a thing to think about when you're negotiating with clients that. That, like I said when I started this video, you are equals if they're asking for something that costs money, if they're being weird, that the relationship will be weird.
If, sorry, if they're not negotiating or if it's become this headache for you. I'm telling you that's how your relationship will be. So work on developing that spidey sense, that smell that something in the kitchen is burning. Like first you're like, okay, something's on fire. Like something's not going well.
Here you go buddy. And then as it gets stronger, right? You're like, there's definitely a fire somewhere like there. , you know, and ve and I talked about this recently where, um, We, it, it's just this thing where you have more experience. The more you negotiate, the more you talk with clients, the more you start trusting your gut that you're like, this is weird.
The more you have these experiences and the stronger your gut gets, the less you really negotiate. Really, you kind of get to a place where you're like, either you're like, one, I don't wanna work with this client because this is crazy daisy time. I'm not running around in circles. Or you get to this point where you're like, I'll negotiate to a certain level and then uphold my boundaries.
Or you're just like, no, like I'm out. This isn't gonna work. Um, so your red flags really, a lot of times they pop up pretty, like, I get emails, I get emails every single week, lots of 'em every single week, um, from writers saying these types of things, Hey, my client did this weird thing. They, they literally say that, Hey, my client did something weird, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
And then I'm like, your client is weird. Don't do that. Like, like they have a sense where they're like, Hey, something strange happened with my client. Or my client did something unpalatable, or my client did something weird, or my client, um, is making me jump through 85 hoops. Then you're like, yes. Like, like much of the time I'm just confirming, right?
Yes. This is crazy daisy time, don't do that. Right? So if you start feeling that, develop that instead of ignore it. And like I said, this is a conversation I have to have with myself a bunch of times. I've done this several times in the last year. Um, and it's just part of like understanding the smell and then trusting your gut and building it over time.
Uh, Holly says, I saved this to remember from Jennifer Go forth Gregory Gregory's blog about negotiation that doesn't work for my business goals. Yes. Jennifer Goforth Gregory, if you guys don't know who she is, she has the content marketing writer book, and then she also has a blog. Um, she's been a writer for, well, longer than I have.
Um, but this is a great phrase that doesn't work for my business goals. Yep. So like if you're negotiating and you're like, oh, it's. We've entered crazy daisytown just say like, Hey, I totally get, you know what you're saying. That doesn't work for my business goals. Best of luck in finding the right writer for you, right?
Moving along. So that's all I wanted to, that's I think, the most important things that we wanted to talk about when it comes to negotiation. Um, I don't wanna muddy the waters. Like I don't wanna make this thing seem more complicated than it is. Like, we can make it cut and dry. Does that work or not? Okay.
Does that work with my boundaries or not? Does it work with my goals or not? Does it work with my business or not? Does it work with my writing style, my rates, my, uh, legal, my scope of work, my timeframe, my deadlines, my whatever, my time off does a work or not? We don't have to make it overly complicated.
And if you remember that you're, your client's equal, then you won't be doing these underlaying activities. Like, oh my God, my client did this and now what do I do? And blah, blah. It's not a power struggle, . It's simply a hashing out of details. Like, remember that it's not a power struggle, it's just a hashing out of details.
And I get it. Like some people. Um, think about negotiation different than I do. I don't think about it as a power struggle. I'm just like, does this work? Do you like it's, uh, kind of think about it as like the people at Olive Garden who come by and they're like, you. They bring you that giant ass salad and they're like, do you want cheese?
Right? They come around, they give you cheese, and then they just say, you say when. Think about it. Like that negotiation is like, there's a giant salad. Do you wanna eat the salad? It is included in the meal. Yes or no? Okay. I want the salad. Do you want cheese on the salad? Okay. How much cheese is there? All right.
Grind it up right until I say when. That's it. We're just setting boundaries, accepting or, or negotiating the amount of cheese on our salad. Like it's not this heightened story that we're telling ourselves. Um, yes. Woo. All right. We're gonna move to questions, but first we're gonna do a little woo. We're gonna do a little woo snack time.
Hi, woo. Good girl. Other one. Good job. I know we just have like snack bits today. I was, uh, I failed on the dog mom front that I forgot to order you guys more snacks. So they're in the mail. They're coming today, but we have just like little pieces. Oh, she, uh, she left. Where are you going? You trying to stretch?
You have to go. You, you can't just sit here and bark at me. You sass. All right, one more then we're gonna do questions. If you, um, feel like this has been helpful so far, like, not well, I mean the dogs. Yeah. But , if you feel like this, uh, video has been helpful so far, give it a thumbs up. If you feel like you wanna learn more about building, um, a business you adore, freelance writing business, you adore, or, uh, hitting six figures, subscribe.
Um, and like I said, you can also subscribe to this channel to get more information about the class. I'm gonna run shortly. It's gonna be in a few weeks. Um, questions. All right. I have a couple of complicated ones. The first one isn't complicated. So what's a chap book? A chap book is just like a collection of poems.
So I sent out an email last week about how reading really helps you become a better writer. A lot of people are worried about the fundamentals of writing and that they need to learn all these grammar things or all these like ticky tacky bits about writing to become a better writer. And you do. That's true.
There are some things to do, but most of the time writers get better through reading and learning through osmosis basically. So one of the things I said is like, hey, if you wanted to go into fiction or poetry or um, you were working on this type of writing, you would read a chat book. So chatbooks just, uh, collection of poems, it could, I guess technically a chat book could, uh, I don't think it's like a short story anthology.
It's just a collection of poems. And this, uh, the question is how do you budget time for reading content work examples into the average workday? Um, I do this by reading the examples before I actually write something. So this is something I tell, I've mentioned on this live stream many times where, um, I think this, this is a really important piece.
I read 20 to 50 articles. So like, for example, here's a good one. Um, I haven't posted this yet, but I have a new article on Forbes. So I have a Forbes article that I need to pub publish. Like that has been, it's already been published. I just haven't put it up on my portfolio or like, haven't posted. But in order to write that Forbes article, I had to read 20 to 50 other articles before writing it.
So I'm budgeting in the time to understand a magazine or a business' style tone, um, how they put their work together, the type of research they use by reading as part of my researching for the article. So it's not that I bud budgeted into my average day, it's that I'm budgeting it into the time it takes me to work on.
So, So this is why, you know, when you work on uh, retainer, clients like it get, the work gets faster cuz you don't have to read as much to absorb the tone and style or whatever you're supposed to be doing, right? Or if you write regularly for a client, you become familiar with writing that tone and style, it becomes a lot easier.
So you're budgeting this. This is why I tell people sometimes that I'm a slow writer. Like some people are like, oh, I get a blog post done in two hours. And I'm like, well what about your research time or reading about tone and style? They just like straight up write it. That doesn't work for me. I am putting that research time.
It might take me a couple hours, like it could take me an hour, it could take me four hours, but I need to read enough material so that I can write in that style. Like I need to be able to feel naturally able to like put that stuff together as I write because that cuts down on my writing time and it cuts down on my editing time.
There are writers who don't read, they read like two examples, and then they write the article in their own style, and then when they do edits, they go back and like infuse different types of style into it, right? So like if they were gonna write for Forbes, they would end up, um, they would end up like writing in their normal style and then injecting Forbes tone and style into it in edits.
I don't do that. I like to put it in naturally as I write. So in order to do that, I have to do backend activities, which means read a lot before I actually write and do when I'm actually doing research. Part of the research is reading, um, content examples from that publication or from that, um, organization or from the client.
So it's not that you do it every day, I I do it. I feel like if you're starting out, you should read a lot every day. So if you're starting out as a writer or you're still trying to get your sea legs, Uh, you should be reading reg articles from a lot of different places that have to do with your niches or have to do with your interests, or have to do with places that you wanna be published or work with all the time, every day.
I don't know, an hour, but like just I, I do it through newsletters too. So like, um, before I was writing for Kaine Nast Traveler, I would get their newsletter, and every day I would read a couple articles from the newsletter. I would get a daily newsletter from Kanye Nast Traveler. I'd pick a couple articles in there and I'd read 'em go about my day if I'm going to work for someone that I haven't read a ton of their material in a while.
So like Forbes I read pretty regularly. But for this particular thing, um, I, I needed, I needed to . It was very technical and it had to be right, like you're giving people advice on a very specific, difficult topic. So I had to read a lot of information to do that. So if I'm starting out and I'm a newer writer, I would be having newsletters go in my inbox and I would read a couple articles from those every day as you go, as you get, um, more newsletters and you read more, it goes a lot quicker.
Like at the beginning it's gonna be slow. Then the same thing is like you budget that into your research time for a piece. So you read 20 to 50 articles. I don't care if it's 10, but you have to read enough material to be able to write in that tone and style without it, like obviously standing out from everything else, like to understand what they're looking for, what's going on.
For me, it can be a lot, like I said, it could be 50 articles, it could be a lot of material, or it could be 10, but that's part of the research and that's part of doing good work, right? That's where you have limited edits, like you've matched the thing that it's supposed to be. Uh, when you go back and edit your piece before submitting it, you're not having to scan for tone and style.
You're actually having to scan for just. The actual work being wrong, right? You're scanning for the things that stand out rather than having to inject a bunch of stuff in it, which I don't like to do. Um, so there's two different ways to do that. All right? Yeah. Holly says she does that with parents. So the magazine parents, right?
So she's doing that where she's reading the newsletter or she's reading articles. A lot of them to understand the tone and style. Um, Holly says, I've only heard of it for poems. Okay, chatbooks are only for poems. Now we know. All right, let's go to the next question. Question is, how do you start? Oops. Um, sometimes I'm not very good at making these centered
How do you start recognizing the type of wording used or tone or style that writing experts call the voice of a publication? How long does it take before someone can identify that or point out the difference between one style and. , this is the way I always like to think about it. So if I, if I'm from Boston and I'm telling you about Boston and we're going over Boston in the Hobbit yard, right?
And that is very different than if I'm from Alabama and I'm telling you that this ain't gonna work for y'all. Like, those are two different things, right? So I always think about it as like an accent. So like that is very easy to tell the difference, right? That's should be obvious. Like you should be able to hold two different publications.
And I'm not saying two different publications in the same niche because when you read Traveling Leisure and Conde Nast Traveler, yes they are different, but they're pretty close. They're, they're close. But if I picked up, um, food Network Magazine and I picked up Texas Monthly, those are gonna be . Yeah. I'm good at accents.
I just awesomely like don't do it that often. Um, but it is something I, I am good at accents. , um, . So maybe I'll do that more often. So that's the thing is when I am thinking about Texas Monthly, what I'm gonna be writing about in the subject matter and what I'm gonna be having, um, as the tone style is gonna be very different than Food Network Magazine.
Or let's say I'm gonna read a magazine that's designed for women, and then I read a magazine that's designed for men. Like the, it's very easy to tell when you read these two different types of publications that are obviously for different audiences, um, that are different. But if I go read afar, which afar kind of stands out a little bit, so Afar can stand out from Cine, NAS Traveler, and Travel and Leisure, um, but, or like airline publications.
Hi, buddy. Good job. So, th it's pretty obvious when you read these different things, but I'm saying like, there are ones where. They're in the same niche. Like you could read four different parenting magazines and they're all kind of like upbeat or positive or, um, they are, um, like interested in these types of facts and figures.
Like you could read magazines in the same niche, like airplane, like airline magazines, and they all kind of sound the same. And that's fine. Like the, that's close enough. We just gotta make sure that we know the difference. Uh, but I'm, but like, it's, you gotta think of it as like a wider audience. Like it's a wider thing.
So like a men's magazine, the tone and style would be very different than a women's magazine. Um, and like I said, you should start recognizing the voice tone style, like pretty immediately. Like we, if I pick up a women's magazine and then I pick up a travel magazine for luxury travel, they should seem different.
Like they, you should be able to read them and they seem different. . Um, and it should be immediate. If it's not immediate, that means you need to read more. I don't care, 20 to 50 articles. Go in there, pick up a magazine, or read blog posts or go to your client's website. It should be pretty re like, you should be able to tell the difference.
This is also, um, this is also kind of a difference between like, if I read a super technical manual and I read someone who's marketing to consumers, so like a B2B company that's marketing to engineers to help like a GitHub. If I'm marketing GitHub to engineers and I'm marketing a smartwatch to, um, consumers, that's gonna sound very different.
Or here's another good example with the smartwatch. I'm going to market the smartwatch to engineers as a way for them to test apps, right? Hey, buy this thing, buy the smartwatch, and you can test more apps. But then on the consumer side, I'm gonna say, buy the smartwatch so that you can be more fit, lose weight, blah, blah, blah.
That already has a different tone and style. Cause I'm telling someone, Hey, you can test something with this. You can have it do different things. And that's gonna be a more serious tone. It's gonna be more technically laden versus me being like, it's so fun to have this smartwatch. You can do this stuff right, for consumers.
So it should be almost like, most of the time when I'm talking to, to writers and they can't tell the difference between tone and styles of different publications, it's cuz they're looking at publications that are all in the same niche. Like they're all pretty close and that is, they're gonna be pretty similar cuz they're all going after the same audience.
Right. So if I'm looking at four different women's magazines, like I'm looking at like in style, um, Cosmo, um, I don't know why I'm blanking. Like in Style or Cosmo or, um, I don't know, refinery 29 or uh, um, Women's health or whatever. If I'm looking at women's magazines, those can oftentimes, or like any magazine in a certain category, food, I don't care, travel, whatever, they're, they can be pretty similar.
But if you're looking at an auto mechanic magazine and you're, or Tractor Poll, right? Or, and then you go read Austin monthly, they're gonna be very, very different publications, right? And like I said, this is the same thing. Or you have someone like, in different areas, it's the same thing as talking with an accent.
It's like when you're looking at these different things, like if you, um, if you're reading enough, it should be pretty obvious that they're different. So the, the period of time, right, that you can identify or point out different styles and tones usually ask, do with the amount of reading that you're doing.
It could be like, I used to read dozens of back issues, like before I was pitching afar and before I was pitching bigger public. I read dozens and dozens of back issues to get a feeling for their tone and style. So it's more about, it's not long as in time, it's like condensed. So like if I read dozens of back tissues over two weeks, rather than reading dozens of back issues over six months, right?
That's more of like, we're absorbing the same material just over a longer period of time. So this is the same thing, I think is, that's really important. Read widely read a lot, and then the more you read, the easier it is to tell the difference. This also applies to stuff like newspaper content, right? A lot of newspaper content is very similar because they're like to the facts, to the point.
Um, their style and tone can vary somewhat, but like if I'm like, New York Times and the New Yorker are different, right? Or, uh, the Boston Globe and the Washington Post can be kind of similar, but when you're thinking about distinguishing them, remember it's like accents. Like there's a big difference between like, If I'm talking to someone from like Florida versus someone from New York, right.
Or if I'm, um, I can tell the difference from someone from Wisconsin and someone from South Carolina. Right? It's kind of like that. Okay. So I hope that was helpful. Maybe we'll do more accents. I do good like international accents too, so we'll see. Like a good, I do a good German accent , so maybe we'll do that.
Um, yeah, it's kind of like everybody wearing those different Yeah, that's, that's true, Marie. Yeah. Yeah. The other thing, this is a good one too, is like you're also looking for the publications and how they're doing. Is it casual? Are they doing features? Is it first person, right, versus third person? Is it reporting?
Is it, um, does it have a lot of interviews or is it a lot of stor, like personal essays? Like there's a lot of stuff to look at in there that's more than just, uh, tone and style. So that also goes in there too, in kind of sussing out the difference in magazines. So I'm glad Holly brought that up. All right, let's go to this third question.
So this third question is long and complicated. Hello. I'm still here, so I'm gonna read it, then I'm gonna edit it . So it says, I'm using your freelance writer pricing guide to increase my rates. If you haven't gotten my freelance writer pricing guide, it's free. Go to mandy ellis.com/pricing guide. I work for agencies, so I have an hourly rate that I increase regularly, but I'm picking up speed.
This year. I increased my rate every three to six months and nobody's complained. So I think I have a bit to go. That's definitely true. Um, I don't want to undervalue my work, and I'm cautious not to price myself out of work. So I'm increasing my rates cautiously. I wanna move to an roi, return on investment pricing model with a.
And I'm in regular direct contact with their associate vp who's happy with the work. If they could select another person to do this work, basically like at a different rate, why don't they, and why do I have to contact people high up in the chain of command this company can afford per project, if not ROI pricing.
I'm feeling a little hard done by. So let me edit this down a little bit. Um, , just because I feel like this is a lot of stuff. Um, you know what? I'm just gonna leave it up cuz it's a lot of stuff. So let's talk about this first. So, pricing guide helps you increase your rates, but you don't, there's no way to price yourself out of work.
That makes sense. So let me mark this over here. So there's no way to price yourself out of work that is for you. The only way you can price yourself out of work is for a client who's not the right fit for you to start with. So when you're thinking about you are undervaluing your work, if you feel like you slowly have to raise rates at a snail's pace, you're definitely undervaluing your work.
Remember, like I said, your work brings in leads, subscribers, sales, uh, traffic, um, like shares, comments, uh, all the good stuff your clients want way after you start working with 'em. And this is one of the things that I have with agencies is like, agencies can be, if you find the right agency, great, but there are a bunch of agencies where like, you work by the hour and like, they're like, oh, that like five extra dollars an hour.
Like, that's too much and it ends up being 200 extra bucks at the end of the month, which is just like not, they're just like, that's way too much and it's such a small number. Um, so if you're picking up speed and you're increasing your rates, like, my guess is that you should have already increased your rates way more.
You should be increasing your weight rates. Way more, um, than every three to six months. And you definitely are too low. Like you're way too low in your work. And then it says, I don't wanna, um, I'm, you, you can't price yourself out of work. And if you're raising rates cautiously, you're working with the wrong clients, like you, you are doing this too slow of a speed.
And I'm saying this from experience, like, I did this, I did this, where I would be like, okay, just 25 extra bucks, or 50 extra bucks. And that's fine if you're building confidence and you're like so paralyzed by fear that you can only do 25 bucks. But I know this person well enough to know that, um, this person should be raising the rates by a bunch.
Like you should be raising your rates by a bunch, not just small amounts. Also, the other thing here is like when, so I'm gonna take this as another piece. When you're kind of working on these projects, you should be working with higher up people, your VPs, your marketing directors, your CEOs. It depends on the company, but.
It's normal that you would be working with these higher up people. It's normal. Um, that, that you would be contacting people in high, uh, high up in the organization because those people make the decisions. They're the, it doesn't matter. Like to me the title doesn't matter because it's whoever makes the decision.
I don't care if your name is like associate fish handler and you are the one that makes the choices about the content, or if your title is c e o, whoever makes the decisions, that's who I wanna talk to. And sometimes those people are VPs or directors or CEOs and sometimes they're like associate fish handler and that's who you deal with, right?
So it's, it, this is normal. It's normal and you should be, you should um, want to talk to higher up people in the organization cuz they're usually more focused. They usually have their shit in order and they usually make decisions that are like firm and it's not someone who's like wishy-washy. Okay, let me delete that.
let me put this up now. So this is a different thing. I mean, so if there's a couple things, oh, woo. Go back to your Hubble hole. So return on investment pricing. I was confused by this. So when I got this email asking about return on investment pricing, I don't know exactly what that means. Like unless you want a percentage.
So the only times that I've heard of ROI pricing models for freelance work is people who write sales pages and then they get 10% of sales generated by the sales page. So that I, that's the only one that I know of. I don't know what a return on investment pricing model would be that you say like, oh, if you get 65 shares, I get X amount of.
like, I think really what I, I don't actually think this is what this person is talking about, where they get a percentage of like, the investment. What they really mean is value pricing. Like you should just charge value rates. Like instead of trying to, instead of trying to, um, scrape by, by slowly increasing your hourly rate and instead of trying to like slowly creep up, pick the price that you're not gonna feel bitter about.
This is what I tell people. Pick a price that makes you sort of nervous, but um, it makes you a little bit nervous, but you know, if you get paid that amount that you're gonna feel really good about it, you're not gonna be bitter. So it's like most of the time, , even when I ask writers to pick a price that makes 'em feel nervous, they pick a price that's so low almost every single time.
So I, if I tell you to pick a price that makes you nervous, that's still probably underpricing almost every time. Maybe not this time, but. , your ROI pricing model would be for something where there are exact sales generated that you would be able to get a percentage of, which I don't think is this. So your, your return on investment isn't that they're getting a calculating results from everything you do because content can take forever.
Like it can take years for something to work out. So like if you wrote a landing page or you wrote, uh, a case study and it turns out three years later they're making 7 million from that one case study, bringing people in, uh, that's value pricing. Like you should have priced that case study at a good rate, right?
5K or whatever. Um, because you know it's gonna generate leads in sales for your client. So my guess is that this is actually meaning value pricing. And if you feel like your client can afford value prices, you should do that. I wouldn't work hourly. I would do per project. I would charge what the work is worth, right?
Um, charge the number that makes you a little bit nervous, but you know, if you get that number, you're not gonna be bitter about it. Um, I, I just feel like per project is the way to go. And maybe that's what's happening here is like return on investment pricing model means per project. But I also don't like the idea of like, waiting for results.
Like if you are doing a direct thing where you're like, Hey, we need a landing page or a sales page that's going to go up and it's going to generate sales in the next two weeks, and then we'll pay you out on a monthly basis. 10% of what's generated, or, uh, let's say it's just like a, a, a quick, like a two week, uh, launch period and then that it's over.
It's not like evergreen and on all the time, then you can get paid for that. But your return on investment pricing model should just, to me, is just like charge per project value rates, like charge the value of that project and understand the long term value of your content. It's not. . Um, it's not about like slowly creeping up.
It's saying like, I know that this article is worth a thousand dollars and I know that it's worth, it's actually worth more than that in sales to you and it does all this stuff. Right? Um, and you should charge like what you think the value of that work is basically in the long term of work of that content being available.
If you were working on something that was ROI based, that was a, that was generating sales immediately or that was on Evergreen, that was generating sales monthly, that would be something where your agreement would say like, you get X percentage of the sales. Like Ray Edwards is a good example of that. He wrote a bunch of sales pages, um, that generated like big piles of money and he would get a percentage of sales generated.
So he'd get paid for the sales page and he would get paid, uh, the royalties essentially. So that's something where, . Um, we shouldn't be having to convince everybody all the time of like the value of our work, which I think is kind of baked into this question. It's baked into this question where one of the other things that was in here was like, I'm worried that the client is price shopping.
My lowest paying client is well below my highest paying client. Uh, I, I'm doing more strategy than writing. Um, yeah. So like all of this stuff in there, I think you really need to think about like the total project cost in there versus hourly. All right. Hey, Getty, welcome. Um, oh, no, I'm just sorry. You got Covid.
Uh, Getty. That sucks. I hope that you're feeling better. I hope things get, get better soon. Business says, okay, business says, what are the rates for case studies these days? How does the economic situation and inflation and layoffs affect pricing? Should we be adjusting our rates higher or lower? That, not that not, you know, this, we talked about this like 65 times and this is the same thing that I'm telling you before there.
This is not the same thing as a full-time job where like in order to have people not laid off, you cut hours or you cut salaries. So there are plenty of full-time jobs where when economic times get tough and they're government funded or they're whatever, which is, I know , and I have talked about this, that you're like, oh, we only have X amount of money left in the government grant or in the fund.
We have to cut salaries so everyone can stay employed. This is not that There is zero change in pricing because of economic stuff. So like if there's inflation, you should probably raise your prices, but you should already be in raising your prices every year, if not twice a year. Like this is something.
To me is not inflation based. It's experience and quality based. So the longer that you're a writer, the better quality that you're providing, uh, the better experience and content and all that stuff that you're providing to your clients. You should already be raising rates. So like inflation's a non-issue, inflation's really an issue for like full-time people that are working for like 50 K for six years and then they like, haven't gotten it adjusted for inflation, which is they should have already switched jobs.
So for us, that has nothing to do with us. Our pricing should, if anything, our pricing should be higher. I know he'd stepped on you. How rude. If anything, our um, our pricing should be higher because everything's more expensive, right? So like, let's say we're going to grocery shopping and we still have to pay all of our bills, right?
We have to pay all of our bills. So lowering our prices doesn't. Pay our bills. There will always be companies that can afford to pay you the prices that you deserve. You just have to go find them. If you want the diamonds, you gotta dig, right? So you're, you should not be lowering your rates. You should always be raising your rates.
So your in you, man, just the inflation part is, I just feel like we do it so much more often than inflation happens. Like, you should be raising your rates like five to 10 times more than inflation. Like you, you should have already raised your rates like five or 10 times before we start talking about more inflation.
Like we, we, right? Like full-time jobs. The salary increase is incredibly slow. Freelance writing it's can be very fast. So that's that. What are the rates for case studies these days? Also something that if you're starting out, um, Your case study, like let's say your minimum for a case study, I still feel like should be a thousand dollars.
Like I still feel like the minimum for a case study should be a thousand dollars. If you really wanna be sweaty about it and you feel like you're really not qualified for a case study, I guess you could do it at 500 bucks or it's like a one pager, like it's literally one page of a case study and it's like, you know, 500 words fine.
But I feel like a thousand is kind of the minimum for a case study. And you can have a case study that goes up to like 5K or 10 k, I mean, it could be, it's, it's, again, it's depending on how many interviews am I doing, how big is this thing, how long does it take? Is it 10 pages or 20 pages? Most case studies or three to five pages.
Um, some could be longer, some could be seven to nine pages. Um, but again, like your case studies, like for, for you vesna, particularly yours should probably be in like the three to five K, if not above range. If not like five to seven K. Cuz your stuff is very complicated and technical and hard to do. And we've talked about that before.
But yeah, your case studies, I man, case studies are like the juicy piece of steak. That, or like if you're vegetarian, I don't care, tofu, whatever, or like dragon fruit, um, that get people to come in, right? Like those are the things that prove that your stuff works and it works well. And those case studies oftentimes lead to very big sales.
So if you read a case study for five grand, right? And your client makes 25 grand from one case study, right? That sells someone on their product, , right? They've, they've already gotten their money back and then some, and then that one case study will be repurposed for years, right? Um, it could be repurposed for a decade, right?
So yeah, your case studies one, you can get the rates for the case studies, uh, in my pricing guide. So if you go to mandy ellis.com/pricing guide, my free pricing guide has. Uh, the rates for case studies these days, like I said, I think a minimum is probably a thousand dollars. If you wanna be a sweaty teddy and you're like, really don't feel like a thousand is worth it, 500 bucks.
Um, but like three to 5k I feel like is, is pretty reasonable. Um, if it's a really, really big case study, which would be unlikely, but if for some reason someone wanted to do like a 10 page case study with like multiple interviews and, and they've had this working relationship with someone for 25 years or whatever, charge accordingly, you know, but yeah, I feel like it's, uh, it, it really depends on like the complexity and the length, um, and that you definitely shouldn't undercharge for something as valuable as a case study.
The other thing too is like, you as a freelance writer should be adjusting your rates way more than inflation. Like, you, you should be adjusting at a rate where like, that's not, doesn't even come across your radar. Like there, there is no. . There is no that plus. Oh, I will. Plus, um, when we're thinking about like, you should never lower prices.
Do not lower prices. Um, yeah, Bena, you need to raise your rates. Um, uh, do not lower your prices in economically tough times. We own our own business. If you start cutting your profits, I know Bean, I know you want all the snacks. You want all the snacks. If you start cutting your prices in economically tough times, you're now going to make it harder on yourself to run your business.
And there's also this thing that I shared in the community, um, in our finance rider Wealth Lab community, about how, um, as people are creating less content, right? So one of the things that happens, all right, woo. You might have to leave cuz I don't have any more snacks. Bean, we're outta snacks. There's no more snacks.
Go back to your hobb hole. Oh, you almost took the computer down. Yeah, it's not the same as the day job desna. So you're, it's when you work at a day job that's funded by X amount of dollars and then you're like, oh, we don't want Steve and, and Jerry to lose their jobs. So let's all cut our salaries. So we get to keep everybody that we are a one person shop that needs to keep running.
Um, go back to your hole, buddy. I know it's hard to, it's hard to get it. All right. There you go. So, um, when we're thinking about, I share this in our freelance writer Wealth Lab community, where people create less content during economically tough times because there's a lot of people who cut budgets, right?
That means the content that's getting made is actually being seeded more often, right? And the people who really, excuse me, invested in it and paid attention to the ROI of content, actually invest in content more because it becomes cheaper on the internet, right? It becomes cheaper because it's easier to find because less content's being created.
So if you were to cut your rates, you're like doubling down on the discount for those clients that are already investing in it, right? Like, not only are they able to get their stuff ranked better and they're able to, um, have more people see their stuff because people are creating less content, but now you're like giving them a discount.
So that's, they, they don't play together when economic tough times. Like, it's kind of like real estate where like you are, you are keeping your same rate, but like there's not as much competition. So like then you still, you actually get more work. And like I said, there's still people who have during the worst times of America have made money writing and they've made good money.
Um, so I just, I'm not gonna board the bus , I'm not gonna board the bus lower my rates. Um, I, I might negotiate something just depending on a, on a single situation. , but, um, I have to make a living and feed my family and pay for business expenses and pay for insurance, and pay for business insurance and pay for all this other, like, there's plenty of stuff that we have to do in our business.
Um, and for us, like I said, that extra, if you're cutting rates by an extra a hundred or 200 bucks every single time, you're losing thousands of dollars throughout the year where like that, those thousands of dollars made a difference to you in the extra. A hundred to 200 bucks is really small, like on a client's end.
If you're working for a good client who has a budget and is ready to go forward and serious about the content, like it's that 200 bucks is not a big deal, but if you had cut that every single time over year, it builds on Okey dokey. Um, yeah, so we're, remember like your, um, your business operates differently than other businesses too.
It's different than the grocery store. It's different than a full-time job. It's different than like making sure people don't get laid off. It's it's way different thing. And the same thing with layoffs too. When people get laid off, now that work still has to get done. That work is done by freelancers almost every single time.
They're like, how do I pay someone $10,000 to make this go away, to like solve my problem and get the content done? Paying someone $10,000 to complete the content versus an entire salary with benefits and office equipment and a 401k like the $10,000 is nothing, right? So that's really important to keep in mind.
All right, so I hope that this was helpful. I hope everybody learned a bunch and I hope it helps you feel more confident, um, when negotiating with your clients. I feel like we are, um, we wanna stay in that mindset that we are. It's just crumbs. We're just at crumbs now that we are equals with our clients, and we are two equal parties discussing a relationship.
That's it. We're not trying to like beat everybody over the head or gain power or like do weird shit like we're just being regular people. Doing like work together. Um, so don't stress out, don't tell yourself a bunch of stories that aren't true, um, and, uh, stand your ground on your boundaries. The more calls you have, the more contracts you sign, the more people you talk to, you will develop that smell for red flags.
And then you're like, oh, the kitchen's on fire. Like, this is not my client. There's always more work out there, always. It, you may have to dig, you may have to get sweaty, you may have to like really go at it, you know, like it may have to, it may be a struggle, but you will find diamonds every time. And I know , this is something that I needed to hear today, but like, I know sometimes it's really hard, but if you really dig and you work for it and you do the marketing and you get things out there and you do a good job with your work, there's always diamonds out there.
All right. So I hope you guys have a good week or I mean, well, it's Friday. I hope we have a good Friday. We're here every Friday at noon Central time. Um, like I said, I'm going to have a class soon that's about 50 bucks. Um, it's like kind of a, a. Going through like how to kind of build and construct your freelance business day by day.
So if you go and get ma uh, my free pricing guide at mandy ellis.com/pricing guide, you'll get notifications about that class as well. All right. So I will see you guys. You're welcome, Bena. Um, it was good to see you guys here today. Uh, we're here every Friday and I hope everybody has a good weekend. Woo's over here making woo noises.
I don't know if you guys can hear her, but she's over here wooing away. I know. Do you wanna say hi? Do you wanna say hi to everybody or no? No. Nope. She went in position three. She went in position three. She said, no way. Don't pick me up, . All right, I'll see you guys next week. Hope everybody has good weekend, and I hope this was helpful. Bye.
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